How the World Views Jesus

Traditionalism is the dominant position of Christians today and for most of Christian history. This view holds that all those who are unrepentant will be tortured forever after the last judgement without end. I have tried to show how it is difficult to hold to a traditionalism that separates people from the presence of God and do not see it as historical traditionalism at all. I think the nail in the coffin is one of the key texts use to support traditionalism if not the key text. It is found in Revelation 14:9-11 NIV:

A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand,  they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.  And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

The view that this verse teaches eternal torment is one of the greatest sources of fodder in attempting a debunking of Christianity. It is not only that non-believers see an injustice in an eternal duration. It is not only that they are apposed to torment or torture. It is not only that they think it is difficult to see how anyone could be joyful in heaven/paradise/newcreation even though their sibling or loved one is being tortured. It is that they are aghast that this is being carried out by Jesus (the lamb)...in his very presence.

Traditionalists hold to this because it is what they believe the Bible teaches. They don't find this easy to take or nuance at all. They simply feel obligated to accept it and justify it in one of two ways:

1. They say that God is infinite and so any offence or sin committed against him is therefore infinite and requires and infinite punishment
2. They say that the unrepentant in hell continue to sin without repenting perpetually thereby incurring more and more punishment for all eternity

And here are a couple of videos on the same line of thinking:

Did Jesus descend into hell?

The Apostle's Creed:

1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:
2. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:
3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:
4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:
5. The third day he rose again from the dead:
6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:
7. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:
8. I believe in the Holy Ghost:
9. I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints:
10. The forgiveness of sins:
1l. The resurrection of the body:
12. And the life everlasting. Amen.

When we recite this creed at my church, I do not say 'hell', but replaced the word with 'hades'. The reason why is because I do not believe that Jesus actually went to a place called 'hell' (whatever you may believe that to be). Where he did go was Hades; the grave; the realm of the dead. Why do I believe this? Because the creed says he was crucified, dead and was buried. The next logical step is 'realm of the dead' and as posted before I don't believe anyone goes immediately to hell when they die. Furthermore, the very next line is that he rose again from the dead. The striking thing is that he was not raised from death, but from 'the dead'. This says, quite strongly, that he was among the dead between his death and resurrection whether you take it as a literal grave of the dead or a metaphorical/spiritual underworld/realm. There are clear texts that cite Jesus as being in Hades and none that he was in hell. The most clear ones in my opinion are Acts 2:24-32 as well as Rev 1:16 which says,

"I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen.

And I have the keys of Hades and of Death."

I am not the only one to have questions concerning the claim that Jesus descended into 'hell'. For more information and texts on this position see this post. You can also read JETS articles for and against Jesus descending into hell.

No one goes immediately to hell when they die

I make a claim that is often jarring to the people I share it with. I see no basis for believing that people immediately go to hell when they die. Think about it. Where does it say anywhere in the Bible that people go to hell when they die? For that matter, where does it say anyone goes to heaven? That's another subject, but it deserves being acknowledged at the same time. Nowhere in the Bible does it ever explicitly say that anyone immediately goes to either place when you die. In the case of heaven, it never says anyone goes there at any point. In the case of hell, it only ever says people are sent there after they face judgment.

I plan to post more on the various geography and terminology of 'hell' in the future, but let's operate under the generally assumption of lumping all of them together for now except for one; Hades. The place called Hades, otherwise known as Sheol, or the grave, or the place of the dead, is not hell. For most occurrences in the new testament the word is translated into it's actually meaning, but historically it was been translated to 'hell' in at least two significant places. This was due to historical developments including the latin translation which only used one word for both hades and hell; 'Inferi'. English translations such as the King James Version and others continued in this tradition and although most modern translations have corrected this error, the conflation of the two terms remains.

The two main texts that are stubbornly held as teaching about hell are the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16 and the quote of Jesus in Mt 16:18: "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it." The NIV even has a footnote pointing out that the word 'Hades' is indeed a reference to the realm of the dead. I will do a full post on the story of the rich man and Lazarus, but the reference to the gates of Hades is also important. The gates of Hades is a reference to the dead being held in death and unable to return to the land of the living. It is not a reference to the gates of hell, satan, demons, the powers of darkness, etc. Although this has traditionally been used as a text in 'spiritual warfare' to claim authority over the devil there is no textual relevance to that subject. What Jesus is actually saying is that the church will not be held in death. The powers of death and hades will not overcome them, but they will be raised on the last day. It is the promise of the resurrection.

So does anyone go to hell when they die? No. They go to Hades; the grave; the realm of the dead. Those who are dead are 'asleep' and will 'awake' at the resurrection on last day at Christ's return and all will be judged. It is then, and only then, that anyone will go to hell. Those who believe that people go to hell when they die have a few problems to deal with, but the biggest problem (aside from there being absolutely no textual support) is that they are forced to believe in something called 'Particular Judgment'. This is the belief that those who die before Jesus' return are judged immediately at death and are sent to heaven or hell. The problem with this is that there are no texts that teach particular judgement, only the final judgement, or what is sometimes called 'general judgment' by those who hold to this peculiar particularist view. The only text in the new testament that seems to give any justification for this position is, once again, the story of the rich man and Lazarus. However, to the original point of this post, even if we concede that particular judgment occurs and the dead are divided into places of bliss or torment, they would still not be in hell. Luke 16:23:explicitly says that they would be in Hades. It seems clear to me that no one goes to hell when they die. What do you think?

The Myth of Erasing Hell

In my study and conversations one of the biggest misunderstandings on the subject of hell is the idea that some Christians want to erase it. This is a myth (with few exceptions). To recap, the main views on hell alphabetically are:

Conditionalism - The belief that the unrepentant will experience a second death of both body and soul in hell passing out of being.

Traditionalism - The belief that the unrepentant will experience conscious torment of both body and soul in hell for all eternity

Universalism.- The belief that the unrepentant will experience conscious torment of both body and soul in hell until they repent and are saved.

As you can see by the bold underlined words above, each view believes in hell. Of course, if you insist on defining hell narrowly as eternal conscious torment as a traditionalist would I suppose you could try to perpetuate this false assertion, which is precisely what has been happening in that camp. However, if we define hell as the place that the 'unrepentant' are sent after being judged then each of the three main positions believe quite strongly in this place we call hell.

I find this definition to be preferable, not only because this is the normal understanding of the word, but because altering it to use this myth is a big distraction. A red herring. A mere rhetorical move. It does nothing to get at the heart of the actual differences of opinion and creates confusion through false accusation. It may be effective in driving an audience away from a particular view to your own temporarily, but this will only work as long as the wool is pulled over their eyes. This kind of deception should be completely unnecessary if one actually thinks they know the truth and have a strong case for their position. I think it's time to lay down the mythology and get to the heart of the matter.