Mar 31, 2015

A Modern Day Universalist: Thomas Talbott


Just as Edward Fudge is heralded in conditionalist circles as the foremost thinker, the same can be said about Thomas Talbott in universalist circles. The following are quotes from his introductory chapters in one of the best books discussing universalism available today, Universal Salvation? The Current Debate.
"Consider the following inconsistent set of propositions:  
1. God's redemptive love extends to all human sinners equally in the sense that he sincerely wills or desires the redemption of each one of them. 
2. Because no one can finally defeat God's redemptive love or resist it forever, God will triumph in the end and successfully accomplish the redemption of everyone whose redemption he sincerely wills or desires.  
3. Some human sinners will never be redeemed but will instead be separated from God forever."  
If the above set of propositions is logically inconsistent, and it surely is, then at least one of the above propositions is false. But which one? Because Christian universalists accept both proposition (1) and proposition (2), they reason deductively that proposition (3) is false."
"Because Western theology includes, moreover, two respectably orthodox traditions, one of which holds....that proposition (1) is a clear teaching of Scripture and the other of which holds...that proposition (2) is a clear teaching of Scripture, we are entitled to conclude, I think, that the case for universalism is not nearly as `palpably weak' as [some] would have us believe. For if it were so 'palpably weak', you would expect that the respectably orthodox among us would at least agree on which part of the case is `palpably weak'. So which is it, proposition (1) or proposition (2)? Should we limit the scope of God's love, as the Augustinians do? Or should we insist that God's loving will suffers an ultimate defeat, as the Arminians do? If neither of these options seems acceptable, then one is left with the belief that God loves all equally and that his loving will cannot be thwarted forever. And that is universalism."

"...our task in what follows will be to examine two prominent New Testament themes: that of Christ's ultimate victory and triumph, on the one hand, and that of divine judgement, on the other."

"Unlike those who believe that God will never destroy sin completely, but will instead keep it alive throughout an eternity of hell, universalists and annihilationists agree that God will utterly destroy sin in the end and destroy it forever. But whereas the annihilationists believe that God will do this by annihilating some of his own loved ones, the universalists believe that God will do it in the only way possible short of annihilating the objects of his love: by saving them from their sins."

"Paul clearly taught that Christ will destroy death and a host of other cosmic forces inimical to the interest of humankind. So how should we understand this? Universalists believe that the same God who commands us to love our enemies loves his own enemies as well. But God does not love sin or death or anything that separates us from him, and Paul also referred to these as enemies. So here we must distinguish carefully between the sense in which such personified evils as Sin and Death and various cosmic forces are enemies and the sense in which real people under the power of such evils are enemies. Christ destroys enemies of the first kind (non-persons) by obliterating them, that is, by eliminating them from his creation entirely." When he does destroy sin and death and various cosmic forces, he likewise destroys enemies of the second kind (sinful persons) in the only way possible short of annihilating them: by redeeming them while they are yet enemies. For only enemies of the second kind (persons) are possible objects of God's redemptive love."

"So herein lies the Christian universalist's understanding of God's ultimate victory, which is also a key to a proper understanding of divine judgement. God is too pure (read `too loving') to allow evil of any kind to survive forever in his creation. He will not, therefore, merely quarantine evil in hell, but will instead destroy it altogether even as he regenerates the evil ones themselves."

"As Paul himself predicted, the `last enemy to be destroyed is death' (1 Cor. 15:26); and at the end of Revelation 20 we thus see death itself being consumed or destroyed in the lake of fire. This is also called `the second death', which is simply the death of death: the time when Death itself dies everlastingly. But in Pauline theology death is more than a physical process; it is also a spiritual condition and includes everything that separates us from God. Accordingly, the final destruction of death must also include a final destruction of everything that separates us from God. Those who endure the second death will, for reasons of a kind already given, suffer a great loss and will no doubt experience the final destruction of their sinful nature as if it were the very destruction of themselves. Still, like those failed Christian leaders whose false works must also be consumed, they themselves `will be saved, but only as through fire' (1 Cor. 3:15)."

"If you impose upon the Bible the faulty idea that God's justice and mercy are in conflict," you will inevitably conclude that punishment is a matter of justice, not mercy, and forgiveness a matter of mercy, not justice. You will then take the biblical warnings concerning future punishment as proof that God could not possibly be merciful to all, despite what Paul explicitly said. You will also conclude that Jesus came to save us not from our sin, but from the terrible justice of God. As I see it, however, the Christian message is just the opposite of that. God sent his Son into the world not for the purpose of saving us from the justice of God, but for the purpose of establishing that very justice, which is also altogether merciful, in us. When every evil is finally destroyed, every wrong finally set right, and every opposing will finally transformed, then and only then will the scales of justice finally balance; then and only then will God truly be all in all."


Mar 30, 2015

The Basics of Universalism


Over the last two weeks I started going into more detail on each of the three views held by christians historically on the nature of hell by covering the basics of conditionalism and traditionalism. This week we'll look at universalism.

The three main views historically held on the subject alphabetically:

Conditionalism - The belief that the unrepentant will experience a second death of both body and soul in hell passing out of being.

Traditionalism - The belief that the unrepentant will experience conscious torment of both body and soul in hell for all eternity

Universalism.- The belief that the unrepentant will experience conscious torment of both body and soul in hell until they repent and are saved.

Conditionalism may the least known of the three views, but Universalism is, in my estimation, the most misunderstood. Christian Universalism (also called Universal Reconciliation or simply Universalism) is most often thought to teach that everyone simply goes to heaven after death (no one goes to hell ever) and/or is mistakenly equated with 'pluralism.' Pluralism is the belief that all paths/religions lead to God and that Jesus is only one of the ways. However, this is most definitely not what these christians believe. They believe that salvation is found only through repentance and faith in Jesus.

The key distinction of universalists is that they believe there will be unlimited time and opportunities for repentance after death, resurrection, and judgement. Furthermore, they hold that everyone will eventually do so and that all creation will be redeemed and restored with nothing lost. Yes, there will be people sent to hell at the last judgement, but those same people will turn to Jesus and be restored.

One common criticism of Universalists is that they ignore the Scripture and use emotional arguments. However, this is not really the case as there are a number of texts cited to support their position. These are some key ones taken from a post by Scot McKnight:
John 12:32: And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 
Acts 3:21: Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets. 
Romans 5:18: Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 
Romans 11:32: For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. 
1 Cor 15:22-28:  For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.  But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.  Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.  The last enemy to be destroyed is death.  For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.  When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. 
2 Cor 5:19: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 
Phil 2:9-11:  Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father. 
1 Tim 2:4: who [God] wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 
Titus 2:11: For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 
Heb 2:9: But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. 
1 John 2:2: He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. 
2 Peter 3:9: The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
I think the most interesting argument for universalism has been proposed by Thomas Talbott who puts forward three propositions, one of which we must logically reject (As articulated by Richard Beck).
1. God’s redemptive love extends to all human sinners equally in the sense that he sincerely wills or desires the redemption of each one of them. 
2. Because no one can finally defeat God’s redemptive love or resist it forever, God will triumph in the end and successfully accomplish the redemption of everyone whose redemption he sincerely wills or desires. 
3. Some human sinners will never be redeemed but will instead be separated from God forever.
And here are the propositions accepted/rejected by three groups:
Calvinism/Augustinianism: Adopt #2 and #3. God will accomplish his plans and some will be separated from God forever. This implies a rejection of #1, that God wills to save all humanity. This conclusion is captured in the doctrine of election and double predestination (i.e., God predestines some to be saved and some to be lost). 
Arminianism: Adopt #1 and #3. God loves all people and some people will be separated from God forever. This implies that God's desires--for example, to save everyone--can be thwarted and unfulfilled. This is usually explained by an appeal to human choice. Due to free will people can resist/reject God. Thus, where a Calvinist puts the "blame" on God for someone going to hell (election) Arminians place the blame on people (free will). 
Universalism: Adopt #1 and #2. God loves all people and will accomplish his purposes. This implies a rejection of #3. The implication is that God will continue his salvific work in some postmortem fashion. Note that this postmortem salvific work can, and often does, involve a strong vision of hell and can be Christocentric.
From this he goes on to ask that if both calvinists and arminians are considered christian and within orthodoxy, then why aren't universalists?

Lastly, here are the two most compelling texts, Eph 1:10 and Col 1:20, in context:
Eph 1:2-10 NIV: "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ."
Col 1:15-20 NIV: "The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross."

Mar 27, 2015

The Torment of Hell in the Presence of God?


This week I have tried to outline the basics of traditionalism, but have also noted where I think there has been an adjustment in its self understanding and reading of Scripture. I do not think that 'mere separationism' (being separated from God) is the 'traditional' traditionalism. I think it is something new within the broader title of 'eternal conscious torment' (ECT). I think that given the omnipresence of God (that he is everywhere), and that if Revelation 14 is used to support ECT where the torment is happening in the presence of Jesus, the lamb, then it seems inescapable that Jesus is present in hell or that hell is present with Jesus. I did some searching to see if there were good rebuttals to this and what I found was, instead, support::

"Is God present in Hell? We have to say that he is. ...Hell is not spatial separation from God, it cannot be because God is omnipresent. No, Hell is separation from the comfortable presence of God. It is the unshielded experience of the presence of God in his holiness and just wrath, and the absence of his mercy and grace."

"Therefore to summarize: God is present in every part of his creation--hell included--yet God acts according to circumstances of each particular place. Most of the time God is present to bless when His presence is spoken of in Scripture, but this is not true in every case, for clearly He is present to sustain as well as punish if needs be."

"In summary, the presence of God is everywhere in some sense of his being even in Hell. "

"Ultimately, it appears that God is indeed "present" in hell, or hell is in His presence, depending on how one looks at it. God is and will forever be omnipresent. He will forever know what is happening in hell."

John Piper:

"[Rev 14] simply says the angels and the Lamb will be attending this punishment. They will be present."
So the meaning of away from the presence of the Lord does not mean that God is absent in every sense, but in those senses. God will be terribly present in another sense. All reality continues to say: In him we live and move and have our being. And it is still in hell that no one can hide from the Lord or escape the terrible countenance of his anger. So God’s power is present in hell as the one who sustains our being and the one who enforces justice and the one who maintains suffering. He is present in all the ways men do not want him to be present and none of the ways that believers enjoy his presence.

RC Sproul:

A breath of relief is usually heard when someone declares, “Hell is a symbol for separation from God.” To be separated from God for eternity is no great threat to the impenitent person. The ungodly want nothing more than to be separated from God. Their problem in hell will not be separation from God, it will be the presence of God that will torment them. In hell, God will be present in the fullness of His divine wrath. He will be there to exercise His just punishment of the damned. They will know Him as an all-consuming fire.

A sort of non-answer:
https://carm.org/can-heaven-and-hell-coexist
https://carm.org/hell

So despite the surface indicators and language of 'mere separationism', it appears that most adherents, when pressed, acknowledge the oversimplification of this popular level understanding. The concept of the presence of God is described and used in different ways and the meaning of separation from God in hell has to do with the benefits experienced by those in Christ being revoked. In every other sense, however, he is very present, even in wrath and judgement and torment.

The Catholic View of Hell


Since I had a post on the Orthodox view of hell, I thought I ought to include a post on the Catholic view. I won't comment other than to say that I find it interesting that the official catechism could be read to affirm the separationism of the evangelical protestants (Although...read my next post later today). I took these excepts directly from the Vatican's website.
1033 "We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren. To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."" (1 Jn 3:14-15., Mt 25:31-46)
1034 "Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of "the unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost. Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire," and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!""  (Mt 5:22,29; 10:28; 13:42,50; Mk 9:43-48., Mt 13:41-42, Mt 25:41)
1035 "...The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs."
1057 Hell's principal punishment consists of eternal separation from God in whom alone man can have the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

Mar 26, 2015

How the World Views Jesus


Traditionalism is the dominant position of Christians today and for most of Christian history. This view holds that all those who are unrepentant will be tortured forever after the last judgement without end. I have tried to show how it is difficult to hold to a traditionalism that separates people from the presence of God and do not see it as historical traditionalism at all. I think the nail in the coffin is one of the key texts use to support traditionalism if not the key text. It is found in Revelation 14:9-11 NIV:
A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand,  they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.  And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
The view that this verse teaches eternal torment is one of the greatest sources of fodder in attempting a debunking of Christianity. It is not only that non-believers see an injustice in an eternal duration. It is not only that they are apposed to torment or torture. It is not only that they think it is difficult to see how anyone could be joyful in heaven/paradise/newcreation even though their sibling or loved one is being tortured. It is that they are aghast that this is being carried out by Jesus (the lamb)...in his very presence.

Traditionalists hold to this because it is what they believe the Bible teaches. They don't find this easy to take or nuance at all. They simply feel obligated to accept it and justify it in one of two ways:
  1. They say that God is infinite and so any offence or sin committed against him is therefore infinite and requires and infinite punishment
  2. They say that the unrepentant in hell continue to sin without repenting perpetually thereby incurring more and more punishment for all eternity
And here are a couple of videos on the same line of thinking:



Mar 25, 2015

The Presence of God is the Orthodox's Hell


Over the last couple of days I've been writing about the traditional view of hell and how it now seems to be the norm to think of hell as separation from God rather than a blazing inferno. A friend of mine had posted a link to my blog on facebook and a friend of her's shared a link in the comments about the Orthodox Church's view of hell and how it stands in stark contrast to this notion of separation.

I personally really like the Orthodox church's take on a lot of issues. Although I don't always agree with everything exclusively, I do think that most of the time their perspective is insightful and near the heart of an issue if not its solution. Essentially the Orthodox's position is that hell is your experience or perception of the presence of God.  They serve as a good commentary because, for them, the notion that one can be separated from God's presence is absurd since God is everywhere. You can read the entire article, but here are a few quotes and some reflections:
"Paradise and hell are not two different places. Such an idea is an idolatrous concept. Rather they signify two different conditions [ways or states of being], which originate from the same uncreated source, and are perceived by man as two, differing experiences. More precisely, they are the same experience, except that they are perceived differently by man, depending on his internal state."
"Consequently, paradise and hell are not a reward or a punishment (condemnation), but the way that we individually experience the sight of Christ, depending on the condition of our heart. God doesn't punish in essence, although, for educative purposes, the Scripture does mention punishment. The more spiritual that one becomes, the better he can comprehend the language of the Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Man's condition (clean-unclean, repentant-unrepentant) is the factor that determines the acceptance of the Light as "paradise" or "hell"." 
"The anthropological issue in Orthodoxy is [to provide] that man will eternally look upon Christ as paradise and not as hell; that man will partake of His heavenly and eternal "kingdom". This is where we see the difference between Christianity as Orthodoxy and the various other religions. The other religions promise a certain "blissful" state, even after death. Orthodoxy however is not a quest for bliss, but a cure from the illness of religion..."
The way the Orthodox understand salvation is a huge part of what is at work here. Salvation for them is being healed from a condition. In their minds, the end goal of the Christian faith is for man to become god. Now before you cry 'blasphemy' it is important to understand their distinction between God's essence and energies. They do not think we become God in his essence. That is reserved for the Trinity. What they are saying is that we participate in the divine nature (as Peter put it) and are one with god as the father and son are one (as John put it). Through the indwelling of the holy spirit we are glorified and become more than human through our union with Christ. Luther had similar views as have many other major Christian leaders, the early church fathers, etc. Evangelicals tend to shy away from this to avoid confusion that we are gods like God is god, but this is our heritage and tradition not to mention the very words of Scripture.
"The experience of paradise or hell is beyond words or the senses. It is an uncreated reality, and not a created one. The Latins invented the myth that paradise and hell are both created realities. It is a myth that the damned will not be able to look upon God; just as the "absence of God" is equally a myth."
"...there is no such thing as "God's absence," only His presence."
 I think that this last quote is a huge challenge to the notion of hell as separation. I mentioned how evangelicals avoid the language of becoming like god (or gods or participation with the divine or the term 'theosis') because they don't want to create confusion. However , in trying to articulate what someone has quipped "mere separationism", it becomes difficult to reconcile with God's omnipresence. If God is everywhere, how can he not be in hell? Articulating a final state that involves God not being somewhere rather than being 'all in all' breeds confusion.
"More often than not, we strive to secure a place in "paradise", instead of striving to be healed. "
"Orthodoxy doesn't make any promises to send mankind to any sort of paradise or hell; but it does have the power...to prepare man, so that he may forever look upon the Uncreated Grace and the Kingdom of Christ as Paradise, and not as Hell."

Mar 24, 2015

Keller on Hell...er


In yesterday's post I mentioned that the normal way of articulating hell by traditionalists involves making the unrepentant go there by choice rather than God sending them there. In my estimation it is a move to try and help God's public image. No one likes to think of their God as a 'big meanie' (Or in this case the 'biggest meanie') and it's not like traditionalists have nothing to work with. The Christian god who sends people to hell is also said to be merciful, just, compassionate, gracious, and not just loving, but that God is love. A loving god sending sinners to eternal torment seems like a contradiction.

As an example of what I'm referring to, here are a few excepts from a lengthier quote by Tim Keller a well respected leader in America:
"Hell and heaven essentially are our freely chosen identities going on forever."
"Hell is a self-centered ego going on for a billion years"
"Hell is God giving you the life you want, on into eternity."
"Therefore, in a sense, nobody ever goes to hell in the Christian understanding unless they want to. "
"In some ways, the fairest understanding of the afterlife is the Christian one, which says God gives you what you want. If you want to live with God forever, that’s heaven, and you get it. If you want to be your own person, your own savior, your own lord, that’s hell, and you get that – and you stay wanting it; you do not suddenly change your mind."

Mar 23, 2015

The Basics of Traditionalism


Last week I started going into more detail on each of the three views held by christians historically on the nature of hell by covering the basics of conditionalism. This week we'll look at traditionalism.

The three main views historically held on the subject alphabetically:

Conditionalism - The belief that the unrepentant will experience a second death of both body and soul in hell passing out of being.

Traditionalism - The belief that the unrepentant will experience conscious torment of both body and soul in hell for all eternity

Universalism.- The belief that the unrepentant will experience conscious torment of both body and soul in hell until they repent and are saved.

Traditionalism gleans its name from the fact that for most of Christian history it has been the majority view held by the church. It is the official position of the Catholic, Orthodox, and various Protestant branches as well as prominent Christian leaders presently and historically. Many evangelical traditionalists lament the name because it can be misunderstood to mean they hold this view because it is tradition whereas they think it is the clear view of Scripture. To clarify their position succinctly, they most often use the shorthand of 'eternal conscious torment'.

Here are some of the key texts they use for support:
Dan 12:2 NIV "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."
Mt 25:41-46 NIV "41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”"
Mk 9: 47-48 NIV "And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where 
“‘the worms that eat them do not die,and the fire is not quenched.’"
2 Thess 1:9 NIV "They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might "
Rev 14:9-11 NIV " A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”"
Rev 21:10-15 NIV "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."
Traditionalists (aka most interpreters) have concluded that these texts imply immortality (or at least ongoing existence) for the unrepentant on the basis of these texts' terminology such as eternal, everlasting, and forever and ever in relation to aspects of the punishment. It is said that the lost will experience ongoing contempt for God and the saved, perpetual punishment, that their torment will go on forever and ever, that they will have no rest, and will be shut out from the presence of the Lord. In order to assemble these various statements into a coherent whole, they have used various approaches. Historically, the traditional view held that there was a literal lake/place of fire where the lost would burn forever in a fire that could never be quenched or put out, but would last forever. In this model the darkness and sometimes the undying worm were taken as analogies.

More recently, however, there has a been a major shift in which nearly all texts are taken as figurative analogies describing the agony of eternal separation from God. This has come to be known as the metaphorical view as apposed to the literal view. Unsurprisingly there are many variations within this mode of expression ranging from God actively tormenting people to their being full of remorse for their self exclusion by rejecting the gospel. The move is significant in that it allows for a wider range of views within the scope of eternal conscious torment while still holding what many consider the core aspects of the traditional view. This change isn't without it's detractors (most often the literalists), however, who say it isn't right to replace God's active wrath with a sinner's self exclusion, 'torture' with torment, etc.

I think part of the reason for this shift has been the evangelical emphasis on personal repentance and belief in the gospel to achieve personal salvation by key figures such as Billy Graham. He articulated a view of hell that was essentially based being separated from God forever; having no personal relationship vs having a personal relationship with God.  C.S. Lewis also articulates something of this sort in his writings going so far as to say that hell is a place "locked from the inside." However, I think that a larger reason for this shift could have to do with cultural pressure to square the justice of God with the love of God. Answering the question of 'How could a loving God send people to an eternity in hell"' lead to many people coming to the same conclusion: Hell is a ultimately not a place God vindictively tortures people, but a choice made by those who reject him which he reluctantly honours by separating them from himself.

Regardless of whether one takes the  texts about fire, worms, and darkness literally or metaphorically, all traditionalists defend their view of endless torment by appealing to the God's infinite nature, or man's total depravity, or both. Man has sinned against an infinitely holy God of infinite worth, which deserves an infinite punishment.  Man, being totally depraved (incapable of not sinning without divine intervention), will continue to sin in hell thereby incurring more wrath and punishment so that the amount of torment 'due' is never exhausted; payment will be in perpetuity. The good news is that Jesus has paid this in full on the cross in our place and we can receive forgiveness through him because of it. How is this possible since he never went to hell forever? It is because he, being God, is infinite and his suffering is of infinite worth and therefore an infinite payment.

Traditionalists believe that the unrepentant will be tormented in hell and remain conscious and aware of their state without end. They believe this to be a just punishment for sinning against an infinitely holy God. 

Mar 20, 2015

Contemporary Conditionalists



Conditionalism is the lesser known of the three views and there have been several reasons suggested as to why that is the case. I think that it could simply be because it is a minority view and less controversial than universalism. However, that doesn't mean there hasn't been negative reactions against it or that there aren't significant conditionalist christian leaders and thinkers.

Perhaps the most prominent conditionalist in this past century was John Stott, an Anglican evangelical leader in England. He is considered one of the central figures of the global evangelical movement of the last century and famously 'came out' as a conditionalist in a debate book called "Evangelical Essentials: A Liberal Evangelical Dialogue." You can read his entire portion of the chapter on hell here for free.

Stott wasn't the only prominent thinker to voice his conditionalist view. Many of his contemporaries also came forward to state their position regardless of the potential backlash from their churches or loss of their jobs such as: Phillip Hughes, Clark Pinnock, Dale Moodey, RT France, and John Wenham. The most significant book on the subject, "The fire that consumes," by Edward Fudge was also published in the 80's with a foreword by FF Bruce.

Significant present day leaders and thinkers who are conditionalists:
  • Richard Bauckham
  • Richard Forster
  • John Franke
  • Richard Swinburne
  • Michael Green
  • John Stackhouse
  • Anthony Thisleton
  • Greg Boyd
  • I Howard Marshall

Mar 18, 2015

Conditionalism in Early Christian Tradition


It is often claimed by the traditionalists that conditionalism (and universalism) are theological novelties; too new to be the original view of Jesus, the apostles, or the early church. But is this actually the case? Most of the earliest church fathers simply quoted scripture whenever they address the subject of hell, the last judgement, or final punishment. Therefore, since in many cases the meaning of certain passages of Scripture are in dispute, we need to find instances where the early fathers explained their view in their own words.

A number of research projects have been undertaken to determine where each church father falls within the three views and it is generally acknowledged by all sides that there is support for all three. Conditionalists have begun to be more bold on the assertion that Conditionalism was early...very early. Some even assert that it was the position before the influx of converts who were philosophers with assumptions foreign to Scripture (namely the immortality of the soul).

Here is an example of a common list of Early Fathers said to be conditionalists:

  • First Clement (late 1st century) 
  • Ignatius of Antioch (late 1st century) 
  • Epistle of Barnabas (late 1st or early 2nd century) 
  • Irenaeus (2nd century) 
  • Arnobius (early 4th century) 
  • Athanasius (4th century) 

It's a pretty impressive list, but conditionalists say this is a modest claim because the evidence is too thin (because most simply reused biblical language). I took it from a website called rethinkinghell.com,  which has a lot of resources on conditionalism if anyone wants to look into it further. Below is a video one of their contributors made that goes into a little more detail on why they think there is a strong case that many of the earliest church fathers were conditionalist.


Mar 16, 2015

The Basics of Conditionalism


In the coming weeks I'll be going into more detail on each of the three views held by christians historically on the nature of hell. This week we'll look at conditionalism.

The three main views historically held on the subject alphabetically:

Conditionalism - The belief that the unrepentant will experience a second death of both body and soul in hell passing out of being.

Traditionalism - The belief that the unrepentant will experience conscious torment of both body and soul in hell for all eternity

Universalism.- The belief that the unrepentant will experience conscious torment of both body and soul in hell until they repent and are saved.

The view most frequently called 'conditionalism' goes by two other names: annihilationism and conditional immortality. Many other suggestions have been made but, as with many things in this post, it's probably best to leave it for another day and not get bogged down. They are basically synonymous terms, but they are actually describing two different realities. Annihilation refers to what happens to the lost who do not receive Christ, whereas conditionalism or conditional immortality refers to what is given to the saved.

I think the most important thing to understand about this view is that it presents a drastically different anthropology than the other two views. Those who hold this view do not believe that all human beings are immortal inherently, by nature, or through God's unwavering sustaining of life or existence. They argue that the only people who are immortal are those who receive it through faith in Jesus and thereby through union with him. This immortality, which they take as basically equivocal with 'eternal life', is something that is only given to the saved and therefore 'conditional' as apposed to the other views which hold that all humans are immortal or live forever unconditionally.

They get this from texts such as
Rom 2:7 NIV, "To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life." 
2 Tim 1:10 NIV, "but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel." 
1 Tim 6:15b-16 NIV, "...God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen."
They would also point to the fall of man and the punishment described there as proof positive, because when Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden, the punishment was clearly that they would no longer have access to the tree of life.
"And the Lord God said, 'The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.'" (Gen 3:22 NIV)
This is the same tree of life said to be in the New Jerusalem/heaven/renewed earth in Rev 22:2. Something only the redeemed will have access to. What is disputed is what the tree of life provides and what the words mean.

Much is dependent on the definition of terms such as 'immortality', 'eternal life', 'death', 'perish', 'destroy' 'destruction', etc., which they claim to be taking in the most normative sense and, when found in Scripture, the most plain sense and meaning in context. They would ask how it is possible that when the Bible uses these terms they can never mean what we normally think of when we use these words in any other context. Something that perishes remains forever? Something that is destroyed remains intact? Something that dies continues on for all eternity? Eternal life never means living forever? A lot of linguistic debate is had between the three views on a variety of words and these are the ones the conditionalist pushes most often.

But what about those who do not receive this eternal life? What happens to them? There are a few ways conditionalists have put it and they often struggle to use language not already found in Scripture: Cease to be, cease to exist, cease to live or have life in any sense, die a second time, cease to be conscious, be no more, be annihilated, etc.. Some of these ways of describing what happens to the lost may be problematic if pressed, but the result in mind is clearly that the lost will not eventually be saved, nor will they be tormented for all eternity, but that they will experience nothing in any way. Life, in any sense, will be over.

The amount of places they draw from Scripture on this point is staggering and hard to choose from, but here are a few.
Mt 10:28 NIV "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. " 
Jn 3:16 NIV "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. " 
Rom 6:23 NIV "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." 
Jude 7 NIV "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."
In combination with their view of immortality being conditional, it is clear how they read these texts and come to their conclusions about the fate of the unrepentant. They think that it is a very poor assumption to hold that all human beings will live forever when not a single scripture states it anywhere in the entire bible. They grant that some texts could imply the immortality of the lost if read a certain way, but they argue that this puts the cart before the horse.

The last reason they give that I will cover today, is the atoning death of Jesus. This is an argument that has gained a lot of traction recently. I have noticed the frequency of its use increase to the point where there is scarcely a time where it isn't brought up in debates or online articles. The reason should be immediately clear: Jesus died for us. He didn't just suffer, he died and the primary focus in scripture is his death. Even when it mentions his suffering it is in conjunction with his death. The argument basically says that since Jesus died for us, then those who do not receive this substitute have to bear that punishment themselves.

Conditionalists believe that all human beings are mortal. That we all die once. That Jesus died and was raised back to life defeating death for us. That we are all resurrected and will face judgment. That those in Christ will be given immortality and that those who are not will die a second time and be lost forever.

Mar 13, 2015

Did Jesus descend into hell?

The Apostle's Creed:
1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:
2. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:
3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:
4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:
5. The third day he rose again from the dead:
6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:
7. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:
8. I believe in the Holy Ghost:
9. I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints:
10. The forgiveness of sins:
1l. The resurrection of the body:
12. And the life everlasting. Amen.
When we recite this creed at my church, I do not say 'hell', but replaced the word with 'hades'. The reason why is because I do not believe that Jesus actually went to a place called 'hell' (whatever you may believe that to be). Where he did go was Hades; the grave; the realm of the dead. Why do I believe this? Because the creed says he was crucified, dead and was buried. The next logical step is 'realm of the dead' and as posted before I don't believe anyone goes immediately to hell when they die. Furthermore, the very next line is that he rose again from the dead. The striking thing is that he was not raised from death, but from 'the dead'. This says, quite strongly, that he was among the dead between his death and resurrection whether you take it as a literal grave of the dead or a metaphorical/spiritual underworld/realm. There are clear texts that cite Jesus as being in Hades and none that he was in hell. The most clear ones in my opinion are Acts 2:24-32 as well as Rev 1:16 which says,
"I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen.
And I have the keys of Hades and of Death."
I am not the only one to have questions concerning the claim that Jesus descended into 'hell'. For more information and texts on this position see this post. You can also read JETS articles for and against Jesus descending into hell.

Mar 11, 2015

Mar 9, 2015

No one goes immediately to hell when they die


I make a claim that is often jarring to the people I share it with. I see no basis for believing that people immediately go to hell when they die. Think about it. Where does it say anywhere in the Bible that people go to hell when they die? For that matter, where does it say anyone goes to heaven? That's another subject, but it deserves being acknowledged at the same time. Nowhere in the Bible does it ever explicitly say that anyone immediately goes to either place when you die. In the case of heaven, it never says anyone goes there at any point. In the case of hell, it only ever says people are sent there after they face judgment.

I plan to post more on the various geography and terminology of 'hell' in the future, but let's operate under the generally assumption of lumping all of them together for now except for one; Hades. The place called Hades, otherwise known as Sheol, or the grave, or the place of the dead, is not hell. For most occurrences in the new testament the word is translated into it's actually meaning, but historically it was been translated to 'hell' in at least two significant places. This was due to historical developments including the latin translation which only used one word for both hades and hell; 'Inferi'. English translations such as the King James Version and others continued in this tradition and although most modern translations have corrected this error, the conflation of the two terms remains.

The two main texts that are stubbornly held as teaching about hell are the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16 and the quote of Jesus in Mt 16:18: "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it." The NIV even has a footnote pointing out that the word 'Hades' is indeed a reference to the realm of the dead. I will do a full post on the story of the rich man and Lazarus, but the reference to the gates of Hades is also important. The gates of Hades is a reference to the dead being held in death and unable to return to the land of the living. It is not a reference to the gates of hell, satan, demons, the powers of darkness, etc. Although this has traditionally been used as a text in 'spiritual warfare' to claim authority over the devil there is no textual relevance to that subject. What Jesus is actually saying is that the church will not be held in death. The powers of death and hades will not overcome them, but they will be raised on the last day. It is the promise of the resurrection.

So does anyone go to hell when they die? No. They go to Hades; the grave; the realm of the dead. Those who are dead are 'asleep' and will 'awake' at the resurrection on last day at Christ's return and all will be judged. It is then, and only then, that anyone will go to hell. Those who believe that people go to hell when they die have a few problems to deal with, but the biggest problem (aside from there being absolutely no textual support) is that they are forced to believe in something called 'Particular Judgment'. This is the belief that those who die before Jesus' return are judged immediately at death and are sent to heaven or hell. The problem with this is that there are no texts that teach particular judgement, only the final judgement, or what is sometimes called 'general judgment' by those who hold to this peculiar particularist view. The only text in the new testament that seems to give any justification for this position is, once again, the story of the rich man and Lazarus. However, to the original point of this post, even if we concede that particular judgment occurs and the dead are divided into places of bliss or torment, they would still not be in hell. Luke 16:23:explicitly says that they would be in Hades. It seems clear to me that no one goes to hell when they die. What do you think?

Mar 6, 2015

Is hell the primary motive for Christian mission?



One of the common objections given by traditionalists against conditionalism and universalism is that if there is no hell, there would be no incentive to tell people the gospel; the good news about Jesus. What then would drive people to be missionaries overseas and seek out 'unreached people groups', etc.?

I think the basic answer can be drawn from my last post. Neither of the other views categorically denies that there is a hell in the first place. The traditionalist equates the word 'hell' with their view, but the dispute really lies in what the nature of hell is. All three views still think there is a hell to be avoided regardless. Conditionalists can still be motivated to have people avoid an eternal death and Universalists to avoid an indeterminate period of torment, suffering, or purging.

However, I think the more troubling thing is that this is even thought to be the primary motive at all as if avoiding something were the goal or aim of the Christian message. No. This is not the case. The good news is that we are renewed, restored, reconciled, and given life through Jesus. It is about what we enter into more than what we turn from. And it is about the present life and transforming the world through our selfless acts of service, grace, justice, truth, peace, and love. Perhaps this is why Christians in Western society are looked on so poorly by so many. We come off as judgmental, when we are not the judge. We are fixated on hell, when we are supposed to be setting our eyes on Jesus who was a friend of the outcasts and rejects of religion and society.

I think that there is undue weight placed on the doctrine of hell in our context. What to do you think?

Mar 4, 2015

The Myth of Erasing Hell


In my study and conversations one of the biggest misunderstandings on the subject of hell is the idea that some Christians want to erase it. This is a myth (with few exceptions). To recap, the main views on hell alphabetically are:

Conditionalism - The belief that the unrepentant will experience a second death of both body and soul in hell passing out of being.

Traditionalism - The belief that the unrepentant will experience conscious torment of both body and soul in hell for all eternity

Universalism.- The belief that the unrepentant will experience conscious torment of both body and soul in hell until they repent and are saved.

As you can see by the bold underlined words above, each view believes in hell. Of course, if you insist on defining hell narrowly as eternal conscious torment as a traditionalist would I suppose you could try to perpetuate this false assertion, which is precisely what has been happening in that camp. However, if we define hell as the place that the 'unrepentant' are sent after being judged then each of the three main positions believe quite strongly in this place we call hell.

I find this definition to be preferable, not only because this is the normal understanding of the word, but because altering it to use this myth is a big distraction. A red herring. A mere rhetorical move. It does nothing to get at the heart of the actual differences of opinion and creates confusion through false accusation. It may be effective in driving an audience away from a particular view to your own temporarily, but this will only work as long as the wool is pulled over their eyes. This kind of deception should be completely unnecessary if one actually thinks they know the truth and have a strong case for their position. I think it's time to lay down the mythology and get to the heart of the matter.

Mar 2, 2015

The First Post on the Last Judgement

Where does one begin to speak of the fate of those who are lost? No one likes hell. Most usually don't even want to think about it let alone speak of it. However, I've been thinking about this subject on and off for over two years and have decided start writing and dialoguing on it. There are a few reasons for this, but I suppose the biggest reason is because there is a lot of fear and misinformation surrounding the subject. I want to be fair, clear, and help bring a charitable dialogue for those who have, are, and will ask questions about it. You can leave a comment, send me a message, or speak to me in person. I am aware that for many this subject is sensitive. For others it's quite controversial. For this first post, I want to simply give a brief overview and introduction.


The subject is commonly called the Christian doctrine of hell or final punishment. I have purposely referred to it in the title of this post as the 'last judgement' to be even more neutral. This series is not intended to push the reader into a particular belief, but to uncover, explore, and explain the various beliefs Christians have historically held regarding the fate of everyone who is not 'in Christ' or 'saved' through Jesus when they die.

Historically there have been three main views on the subject. Here they are alphabetically:

Conditionalism - The belief that the unrepentant will experience a second death of both body and soul in hell passing out of being.

Traditionalism - The belief that the unrepentant will experience conscious torment of both body and soul in hell for all eternity

Universalism.- The belief that the unrepentant will experience conscious torment of both body and soul in hell until they repent and are saved.

These are extremely short summaries of the three views and I'm sure some adherents of these views would cringe at the oversimplification and lack of nuance. This is precisely the point of covering this subject, however, and there will be plenty of time to cover each in-depth. For the time being this is enough since some people may not have even heard of all three perspectives. Some may not even have realized what their perspective has actually been for their whole lives until they saw it just now in black and white.

For the majority of Christians, the traditional view is the norm. Many will have heard of universalism and some hold that position even if they do not fully understand it. Even less will hold to or have heard of conditionalism. I hope to help create a healthier dialogue on this controversial subject of hell by surveying what people actually believe and why. I hope to bring light, particularly on the lesser held views, in order that we may understand what each person actually believes rather than a caricature. I hope to eliminate the fear based reactions and careless dismissals that usually accompany the subject.

I welcome feedback, questions, suggestions, etc.